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| After training in the ROAST, Gotenks "surpassed Vegeta and the others"? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 23 2017, 08:14 PM (5,572 Views) | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| SuperSaiyanGodGogeta | Feb 25 2017, 02:28 AM Post #151 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Doesn't mean anything. The intent is clear. You're just playing with the words. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Feb 25 2017, 02:31 AM Post #152 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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The intent is clearly wrong unless you consider that the intent in the past was that goku was always suppressed | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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| SuperSaiyanGodGogeta | Feb 25 2017, 02:38 AM Post #153 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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No, it was never stated that Goku is always suppressed. There is nothing going against Beerus' assessment. He prodded Base Goku a few times and concluded that he was below Freeza. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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| ahill1 | Feb 25 2017, 05:29 AM Post #154 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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I just read the manga of "Yo Son Goku" and we also have that comparison between Avo & Cado with Freeza made by Tarble, with Goku saying "huh, Freeza? Not much of an opponent now... Goten and Trunks will be fine!". So we can have Tarble making a comparison to 1st form Freeza and Goku idealizing Freeza at his absolute 100% just fine, since we are also shown Goten and Trunks trashing them at their base forms and forcing them to fuse. Just in the manga though, since in the anime they [apparently] struggled with those foes. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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| + Pyrus | Feb 25 2017, 07:34 AM Post #155 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Until they shook off the rust, and then they started owning. But rust makes someone 50x weaker, I forgot. |
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| SuperSaiyanGodGogeta | Feb 25 2017, 02:17 PM Post #156 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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There is nothing indicating that Abo & Cado and Goten & Trunks compare any different in the manga and the animation. Them deciding to fuse right away means nothing. You have to make an assertion why the writers made them fuse right away. One side is saying that it's because they were much weaker(for some reason even though that isn't implied). The other side can just say that the animation extended it simply because they wanted to, not because the power hierarchy is any different in both versions. Goku idealizing final form Freeza has nothing to do with where Trunks and Goten are, which is why I don't know how people are equating what Goku says to their strength. Goku idealized final form Freeza, but Abo & Cado, therefore Goten & Trunks in their base forms are all around 530k as Tarble equated the former duo to 1st form Freeza. Any claims that Goten and Trunks surpass final form Freeza has already been directly refuted. Edited by SuperSaiyanGodGogeta, Feb 25 2017, 02:18 PM.
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| + Ssj3vegito96 | Feb 25 2017, 05:57 PM Post #157 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Didn't kid trunks raise his power level high enough for goku sense him from beerus and whis's planet? Doesn't that put ssj1 trunks at buu saga ssj3 goku level? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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| + Pointer | Feb 26 2017, 08:12 AM Post #158 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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No goten and trunks never surpassed goku in their base |
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| ekrolo2 | Feb 26 2017, 12:35 PM Post #159 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Tarble's meaning of Abo & Cado's power based on his knowledge of power puts them at 530k, at least. Goku's meaning of this statement ranges anywhere between 3-120 million since that's the range of power he most associates with Freeza. Coupled with the BoG comment of Base Saiyan's being inferior to max power Namek Freeza and Goten & Trunks being close to their dads in the Boo arc, I fail to see what exactly is up for debate here. I don't like them being that powerful just because either but it is what it is. |
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| twitchy | Feb 26 2017, 03:05 PM Post #160 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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So can anyone sum up the hierarchy and supporting material? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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| SuperSaiyanGodGogeta | Feb 26 2017, 06:34 PM Post #161 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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People still aren't making any sense. Tarble mentions 530k and the base kids conform to fighting on par with that level of power. Goku's interpretation means absolutely nothing other than the face value interpretation of Freeza level power being a good challenge for them. Final form Frieza being a good challenge for them doesn't mean anything. People still haven't put forth an argument about how that refutes their base forms being shown to be around 530k. Until then, nobody on the opposing side has an argument that even slightly makes sense. And the kids were never anything more than flies compared to their fathers. I don't know where this notion that they are close to Goku and Vegeta is coming from. |
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| + Pyrus | Feb 26 2017, 08:29 PM Post #162 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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What do you mean? |
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| twitchy | Feb 26 2017, 09:02 PM Post #163 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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There's 11 pages, did you guys come up with a consensus between Gotenks, Vegeta and Goku's strength in all their forms or is it still unknown? |
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| + Pyrus | Feb 26 2017, 09:52 PM Post #164 | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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The consensus, at least on this forum, is SSj Gotenks (pre) > SSj3 Goku > Base Gotenks (pre) > SSj2 Goku/Majin Vegeta. There are, of course, those that go a different direction, such as the Gogeta character. |
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